Episode 234: Rethinking Sleep for Tweens and Teens: Supporting Rest for Growing Kids with Dr. Funke Afolabi-Brown
/In this week’s episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast, Dr. Laura Froyen sits down with triple board-certified sleep physician Dr. Funke Afolabi-Brown, founder of Restful Sleep MD, to talk about a topic we don’t often dive into—sleep! But not the sleepless nights of toddlerhood—this time, we’re exploring how to help our older kids and teens get the restorative rest they need to grow, learn, and thrive.
Here are the key takeaways:
Poor sleep can signal deeper physical or emotional issues.
Recognize signs of inadequate or non-restorative sleep.
Improve sleep quality with consistent routines, calm environments, and mindful evening habits.
Adapt bedtime routines for older kids to strengthen connection and support healthy sleep.
Set appropriate bedtimes for tweens and teens while balancing family and couple time.
Establish healthy screen boundaries before bedtime for kids and adults.
Support older kids with sleep anxiety, racing thoughts, and bedtime worries.
Help teens value good sleep by linking it to their goals and interests.
Resources:
If you’d like to learn more about Dr. Funke Brown, visit restfulsleepmd.com, where you’ll find links to her medical practice, and weekly blogs. You can also connect with her on YouTube @drfunkebrown and on social media @restfulsleepmd.
Remember, good sleep is the foundation for helping our kids grow, learn, and thrive—one restful night at a time.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. This is Doctor Laura Froyen, and on this week's episode of the Balanced Parent Podcast, we are going to be talking about sleep, a topic we don't talk about often on this podcast. It can be a little tricky when we're talking about it with little kids. But this time, I want to talk about it with our older kids, how we can help our older kiddos and our teens get the sleep that they need so that they can keep growing and developing and thriving. So to help me with this conversation, I have Doctor Funke Afolabi Brown. She is a triple board certified medicine physician who is passionate about helping people discover the gift of sleep as a superpower. She is the founder of Restful Sleep MD and she helps moms and dads, parents, just like us, help, helps them get the sleep that they need and helps their kiddos get the sleep that they need. So, I love when we think of sleep as a whole family problem, and one that we're a team and figuring out how to solve. So, Doctor Afalabi Brown, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here. Will you tell us a little bit more about yourself, who you are and what you do, and then we'll jump in.
Funke: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, and I absolutely love what you do and the support you're giving to families as well. Yeah, so I'm Doctor Brown on the streets, like I say, I'm a sleep physician and I really, my mission is to help people sleep better and so I do this through different avenues through my speaking consultation and also my clinical practice, which is the restful sleep place. And I, you know, I was not a sleep pro. I really did have my own share of sleep struggles, and I think that's really been what has fueled my mission to help others. We do not need to continue to struggle, and that's really, that's really what I want to have people understand and provide very practical relatable tools to help them sleep better, help them and their children sleep better.
Laura: I love that. You know, I love that you were willing to be so vulnerable and saying that sleep was not so easy for you. Sleep is not easy for me either. I've struggled with insomnia for a long time since becoming a parent, really, and a little bit before. And I've had nightmares my whole life from when I was a child. I still have them sometimes and have to wake my husband up, to like ground me in the present, you know. the content has changed over time. But I, you said something as we were preparing for this interview that I feel, I felt curious about. You said that sleep disruptions tend to be a symptom of something else going on. And I was wondering if you could kind of bring that out a little bit for us. Like, why, why is sleep so impacted by other things that are going on for us? And what often is getting in the way of us as adults, we're just starting with the grownups. I'm getting in the way of the sleep that we need, other than our kids, not sleeping.
Funke: Yeah, I mean, our kids play a big role, but I think one is the, it's what we call a bidirectional relationship, right? If you don't sleep well, the day just doesn't go as well. And over time, it just affects our health, right? Our mood, our memory, our metabolism, and all of that. But if you, if you also then take all the issues, the drama from the day, the events, the unresolved conflicts, the non-responded emails, and you take it into bed with you, you're going to have a hard time sleeping. So it's both ways. Now, we know that sleep is not just a passive process where you're just resting because the day is over. We know with 24/7. Globalization, like the day is never over. There's always something to do. So sleep is not just what we do at the end of the day. Sleep is a process of healing, a process of restoration, a process of memory consolidation and mood regulation and hormones regulating our hormones and all of that is all going on during sleep.
So when we don't sleep well, things start to show, right? Even from that, like, you know, even as a mom, right, you're busy, you have so many balls, you're juggling in the air. When you don't sleep well, you become more forgetful, maybe less attentive. You can already start to see something is going on, right? So, so again, it's, it's again that bidirectional relationship. Now when I say sleep is a symptom of something. Or poor sleep is a symptom of something. What that means is that there are different things that can drive the type of sleep we have. If you have poor sleep and you think about it, could it be related to pain? It might be your body's way of saying, well, we have unresolved pain that we're not dealing with. So it could be physical, a symptom of a physical issue. If you have poor sleep, It might be because your mind is busy, meaning that you have some mental or unresolved psychological issues that you need to deal with. So it becomes more like a trigger to say, well, we didn't resolve these things and we're going into bed with them.
You know, if you have poor sleep, it may be a symptom of, you know, so many other things, right? If you have abnormal blood sugars, it may be a symptom of, yeah, your child is not sleeping. So we got to address that. So again, it's trying to show us or tell us that something might be off. And sometimes, especially when you have insomnia, you might notice that the sleep issues have resolved. Or the trigger has resolved, but the sleep issue is still persistent. And so many times people say, I don't know what's how this started. I just realized I'm having a hard time sleeping, you know.
Laura: And so I'm kind of curious about how sleep is obviously super important. We definitely, many of us are not getting enough sleep. I'm kind of curious about how we can know when we're getting enough sleep and when we're not, like, you know, so some people say, oh, I just, I just don't need as much sleep. I only need, you know, 5 or 6 hours. But I think that many of us need more sleep than what we're getting. And I'm just kind of curious, like, what does that feel? Like, what should some indicators be that like, hey, maybe we're not getting enough sleep, or maybe we need to take a look at supporting ourselves in getting better sleep, cause maybe it's not just quantity, but quality too.
Funke: Absolutely. That's a very important area that I talk about. So when you're talking about sleep, you're talking about different aspects. You're talking about the sleep quality, and really that goes to the sense of how restorative your sleep feels when you wake up. And then you're talking about the quantity. So a lot of people talk about how 7 to 9 hours of sleep is ideal for adults. But beyond that, the quality is so important. In fact, if people are saying, oh, I want 7 or 8 hours of sleep, I would rather you. Even though it's still not enough, I would rather you get 6 hours of high quality sleep than 8 or 9 hours of poor quality sleep, right? So when we're thinking of what kind of symptoms you might have, that may show that something is up, it may be one, you're waking up unrefreshed.
After 7 to 9 hours of good sleep, you should wake up refreshed. That is normal. Waking up refreshed is not normal. Waking up feeling tired is not normal. Or getting this like significant sleepiness during the day where you just are so dependent on caffeine is not normal, or you're falling asleep while driving or you're falling asleep at work. So daytime sleepiness, waking up in a refreshed, restless sleep where you are tossing and turning in bed, it's probably a sign that something is up with your sleep. And then you may notice mood issues, memory problems, all those things are indicators that something is up and something needs to be done in addressing your sleep issues.
Laura: Okay. And what are some of the things that we can be doing, you know, regardless of when our kids are going to bed, you know, and, you know, but what are some of the things that we can do to make sure that we're getting that quality of sleep, even if maybe we're not getting the quantity that maybe we would like to be able to have. But what are some of the things that can up the quality of our sleep?
Funke: Yeah, no, great question. So a few things you want to do. We talk a lot about routines for our children and having a set sleep schedule. All those things are super important for us as well as adults. So you want to make sure that you have a bedtime routine. You've put out fires all day, you've solved so many people's problems. It's now time for you to pour into yourself. And that routine, it might be 20 minutes, 30 minutes where you maybe take a bath, listen to some music, some, or some relaxing podcast or do some journaling or you know, whatever it is. So have that routine because what that routine does it actually sends signals to your brain to let you know that it's time for you to sleep. So that's a good one. The other thing is you really want to try and make sure that you're following as close to a set schedule as possible. There's no point going to bed and sometimes at 8 p.m., sometimes at 12 midnight, sometimes at 10 p.m. It is very disruptive to what we call our internal clock or our circadian rhythm. That clock is so key in maintaining sleep regularity.
So you want to make sure that you're as consistent as possible, and then you also want to make sure you avoid. Most people hate sleeping out, sleeping in. So going to bed and then sleeping till noon on the weekends and then on the weekdays, they wake up at 6 a.m. It's really disruptive to our circadian rhythm as well. And then another thing I would say is you want to make sure you optimize your environment. There's so many people that think, oh, I don't want my room to be too cool. And then they drop the cob, the room temperature, and then they have the best quality sleep of their lives. So make your room cool, I'm not talking frigid, make it a little bit cooler than the rest of the house. That really helps you get good sleep. You know, making sure your room is very dark. It helps with the brain to produce the melatonin, which is the sleep hormone, and making sure that you don't have noises and things that are disruptive within that bedroom environment. So you really want to make sure that bedroom environment is as close to a sanctuary as possible.
And then, you know, caffeine, alcohol, the kind of things we drink can affect our sleep quality. If you drink a lot of caffeine and you drink caffeine before bed, it actually fragments your sleep and so causes your heart to race, making you feel a lot more alert and makes it really, really hard to fall asleep. So that is also something you want to pay attention to. Alcohol does the same. Alcohol may actually help you fall asleep. But then as it's, as your liver is processing it, it really does cause a lot of sleep disruptions. So I think those are some things that I would say just to build the basics and then watch what you eat, right? If you're eating a lot of carbs just before bed, a lot of sugary meals just before bed, all of those things are going to affect how, what, how good a night of sleep you get.
Laura: Oh, that's an interesting point. So, my oldest daughter, who's 12, often wants some kind of carby snack, right before she goes to sleep to eat while she's reading, you know, she reads every night before bed. Oh I didn't know that that's something that can disrupt her sleep.
Funke: Yeah, so snacks are great before bed, because, I mean, if you have a child. And you had maybe dinner at 6 p.m. or 6 p.m. I mean, by bedtime, they're hungry. In fact, they're starving. And if you're not careful, it might actually become like a cop out where they don't want to go to bed. So I always recommend having a snack as part of their routine. But instead of it being like more carbs, making it more protein, because that will, yeah, that would help regulate their blood glucose better. And there's so many options. You could do turkey, you could do some. Some nuts, you can get cheese. Exactly, exactly. So I think those would be great ones because then it makes them feel fuller, without being that bloated and it doesn't cause a spike in their blood sugar.
Laura: Yeah. Oh, that makes so much sense. Thank you. As you were talking about kind of having a sleep routine for yourself, I was, I'm thinking about, gosh, the The routines that I used to have for my little ones when they were little, and all the sweet stuff we did to signal to them that, okay, now body, it's time for sleep, you know, the bath and a massage with lotion when you get out and reading with a snack, you know, just all those little things. And it's funny now that my kids are older, and this is something I've talked about with lots of moms who have those kiddos in the like, 8 to 10 age, they almost seem like they age out of that kind of little kid bedtime routine. And it's a rough transition for some families where they, you know, need to update the routine for this new older child who can read to themselves, who is maybe having, you know, the drive to stay up a little bit later. I'm just kind of curious, like, what advice do you have for those families who are in that transition where they've got these kids that are not so little anymore, but still need support and signaling to the body that, hey, it's time for rest.
Funke: Yeah, I love what you said about pretty much just updating things, updating things. And the goal of a routine is not to put you in a box. It's to find what gives you and your child the joy while signaling, while doing that work of signaling to the brain. So if you have, you know, an avid reader who wants to read to themselves, that's fine. I think it's important to build in. Some emotional bonding time in that. So it may not be that they need you throughout the entire period of the routine where you're there for them for 30 minutes. It may be 5 minutes where you get a chance to just kind of unwind and cuddle and talk about their day, but they still want to do it and I, and I talk about sort of some pillars when it comes to our sleep routine. So something that nourishes your body. Something that nourishes your mind, and then something that nourishes your spirit more or less. So for the money. You know, we're talking about having a bath because that's hygienic.
We're talking about brushing the teeth, maybe changing into a different set of clothes like PJ's before bed. So that takes care of the body. For the body it is also a snack, right? You get nourishing your body. So that's one. The second is your mind. So if your child wants to read, having them read, they can either read to themselves or you read to them or they read to you. What, do they like, you know, there's a, and we almost feel, I almost feel like if sometimes we slowly grieve certain stages as we get to the new ones because you're like, oh my God, I love how they would just curl up in my lap and we would read together. But that's okay. It's all evolution. And so finding what would work for them instead of trying to force, old routines, try to find what really works for them, right?
And so then it may be that reading. And reading does many things for the mind, right? It's, you know, it's, it nourishes the mind. They're learning, especially for the younger kids, their vocabulary is expanding, so that's really good stuff for the mind. Sometimes some families, some kids don't want to read and so maybe they just listen to a sleep story or something, you know. So again, all around finding what works. And then for the spirit, really it's about those meaningful connections. So this can look like maybe saying a prayer or singing a song or an affirmation. Or, you know, just really finding something that helps them stay connected and helps them stay grounded. So when you build around those three, like the spirit, the soul, the mind and the body, you're really, you're really having that well-rounded experience that absolutely will improve sleep.
Laura: Oh gosh, I love the idea of even sitting down with your kids with, you know, like a cup of hot chocolate or something and talking about those three pillars. And if you are in that stage of really needing to update things, figuring out what is going to be nourishing for them at bedtime, and then putting those things into practice. I love the idea of collaborating with our kids to figure those things out. Okay? You're bigger, you're older. Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah. Okay, so what about the kiddos wanting to stay up later? What is a good bedtime for our kids who were in, you know, the tween stage, the 9 to 9 to 13, or getting into teens, 13, 14, 15, like, when should they be going to bed?
Funke: Yeah. So it varies. So I think the best way you kind of have to figure that out is first find out how many hours of sleep do they need? And everybody's sleep needs to change. and then when do they absolutely have to wake up? Meaning we're not hitting snooze anymore.
Laura: We have to get out of bed, get dressed, get going for school.
Funke: Exactly. Yeah. And then just count, just count backwards. So for instance, If you have a, maybe a school age, you know, fifth grader who needs to start school by, you know, maybe 8 a.m. or 8:30, meaning that they probably need to be awake by like maybe 7, depending on what's going on in your house and when they are supposed to take a shower, right? Do they take a shower before, when they wake up, or do they take it the night before? Right? So that kind of gives you an idea of how much time you have. And so then you count backwards, you know, a child who is about 10 years old needs somewhere around 10 hours of sleep or so. So if we have them waking up at about, you know, 7 a.m., then you're talking about a bedtime of, you know, like 9 a.m. or something or 9 p.m. or so, about 9 p.m. So that will help set how much sleep they need and what time bedtime usually is. So around that time, like 8:30 or 8-ish, you may want to start talking about a bedtime routine because a bedtime routine can last anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes.
So that kind of helps you set the stage to say, okay, this is when we need to start so that you could get, you know, an adequate number of hours of sleep. Yes, you know, I know you're not feeling sleepy, but this is why we have those routines to help cure your body, making sure your room is dark enough, making sure we're getting off the devices. And I think it's so helpful to have this in a way that's more from a place of conversation so that they get it because it's their bodies. And so if their bodies are fighting sleep and they're fighting or resisting your suggestions, it's just gonna make things a little bit more challenging. So. That's really how I would go about it. So then that will help you figure out like, okay, if I have a, you know, an 8 year old, then they probably need to start getting ready for bed, you know, more around, you know. Start getting ready or get into bed by, you know, 9 or 8:30 p.m. or things like that. I think that really helps you figure out what would be a good bedtime. And, and I, you bring up a very important question because I've had people who, you know, you had your, your, your toddler or your younger school age child who used to go to bed at 7 p.m. to get a 12 year old to bed at 7, it's just gonna lead to a lot of frustration for everybody.
Laura: For everybody, for sure.
Funke: Because they don't need as much sleep, and their bodies cannot start to wind down a little bit later. So I think that adaptation, being able to adapt and be flexible is important.
Laura: Yeah. I will tell you that when that transition happened for me and my husband, we were so sad because we, not because we don't love being with our kids. Like, okay, so yes, we're getting a couple more hours with our kids in the evenings, which is wonderful. Last night we stayed, you know, after dinner, we played board games for an hour, which was great. But before, when they were going to sleep at 6:30, 7 o'clock, then we would get an hour and a half, 2 hours, just the two of us together every night, you know, to reconnect. And we've had to get way more creative around how we get our couple time once our kids are, you know, that now that our kids are staying up later. There's some growing pains for sure.
Funke: Oh, that is such an important, even us in my, in our household too, but what we've tried to do, it's shorter, like you said, but you know, we may say, okay, when the kids, because now, of course they're all independent, when they go upstairs to start their routine, then we have that time where we kind of bond and connect and maybe watch a show. After their routine, they, you know, they're reading on their own, and then when it's time for bed. Then we kind of help and do more. We have like family time for about, you know, 30 minutes or so. So we're still able to fit it in, but we've made a, we've had to make adjustments on like, like you said, when the whole house is quiet at 7:30 and we have all of those hours. Before bed, we don't have that as much anymore.
Laura: Yeah, I think that like no one prepared me for that, you know, they, so I like to talk about it from time to time so that people who are listening, you know, with the littler kids know, like, there will be a day when they don't go to bed at 7:30 and you're gonna have to figure out how to have that time, you know, that down time with your partner or with yourself. Yeah. Okay, so another question I have is around screens and technology and you know, there's some aspects of it that can be so nice, like a sleep story or a sleep podcast, using our phones as our alarm clocks and stuff. And at the same time, I know it's such a slippery slope to have screens in rooms, you know, and so I'm kind of curious as a sleep expert, what are your recommendations around phone and screen and technology use in the time leading up from bed to bed for both kids and grown-ups.
Funke: Yeah. Usually my recommendation is about 30 to 60 minutes before bed to be done. So, I mean, maybe closer, depending on, you know, you have a teenager who wants autonomy, and maybe they've already shown, demonstrated. You know, some responsibility around technology. I'm realizing I think we also have to be aware of where life is right now. Like everything is constantly connected. And so for a younger child who may have a harder time winding down, I usually will say at least an hour before bed, we replace device time with real time. So a family board game is perfect, starting your routine, reading a book, all of those things. So, and, and this is the thing when they come to see me in my practice, I'm telling them, I am not taking your phone away. I promise I'm not that type of doctor. But how about we shift the schedule around where you don't necessarily have to take your device into your room at 8:30 p.m. or 9 p.m. You still get to use your device.
We just have to use it a little bit earlier. Maybe after dinner, there's a little bit of downtime and you want to watch a show or whatever, you do that. And then you start to do things to protect your mind. And so you put out the way and then we start your bedtime routine. And it may feel like a very small adjustment, but when they look at it and they're like, oh well, I still get to be on my phone a little bit or be on my or watch, watch a show. It's not like everything is being taken away, right? Now, of course, if it's a situation where the device used is getting in the way of being able to be productive, being able to complete homework and tasks, you know, that's a whole different conversation to be had. That's not necessarily just sleep related.
Laura: Right, yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Okay, so I would love to ask a couple questions about sleep troubles that you see older kids having, you know, that you maybe get asked about. What are some of the, like, the most common sleep issues? You know, I know what they are for the, the twos and the three year olds, you know, there's stall tactics in bedtime. There's, you know, bad dreams, monsters under the bed, you know, all of those things. But what about older kids? What are some of the, like, the disruptors, some problems that parents come to you are looking for help with?
Funke: Yeah, no, that's a great question because you're right. Most people just, it just feels as if, okay, toddlers, we survive toddlerhood and that's it. But those issues, a lot of sleep issues persist. So, very common is sleep-related anxiety. Sometimes what we call insomnia, where their minds are racing and I've seen 12 year olds coming out of their bedrooms crying, saying they can't sleep, right? So it may be worries from the day or things that they've just carried along for so long and they've just really not been able to process it appropriately. So that's a very common one. Sometimes it's related to technology use where they just can't part with their device and so that's really disrupting their sleep. And then sometimes it's a medical sleep issue like sleep apnea, where they have snoring and pausing during sleep. That's a sign that's, you know, serious and needs to be taken. Taking care of it as soon as possible. And then restless leg syndrome, where they have this discomfort in their legs and things like that around sleep. So those are a few of the more common conditions I see.
Laura: Okay. What are some of the things we can do to support our kiddos if we're being faced with one of those?
Funke: Yeah. So different strategies depending on what's going on. So if you have someone who has sleep-related anxiety, I mean, I usually will do and we want to evaluate, is it only sleep-related anxiety, or is it generalized anxiety that just kind of has its, it shows up at nighttime? So practical strategies like relaxation strategies, you know, breathing techniques. Again, they may, they may want to use like, so many of these sleep podcasts or calm apps. A lot of these apps also have some relaxation strategies. So that's helpful. And also, you know, sometimes it may, they may need to see a therapist or a counselor just to talk through some of those worries. And then there's also what I, what we call the worry box. And so what that is, is a box where they spend some time just talking about their worries or writing down their worries during the day. So it's separating worries from bedtime. So that tends to be very effective. If they have full-blown insomnia, where they're already struggling for this for so long, it might be time for them to see a sleep specialist. With, you know, sleep apnea, you know, and restless leg syndrome, those are specific sleep disorders. So something like sleep apnea, where you have pauses in your breathing during sleep, it's important to try to figure out why those puls exist and what do you do? So if they have big tonsils in the back of their throats, we may need to refer them to see the ear, nose and throat doctor. If they have some anatomical issue, maybe around their mouth where they have a high arch palate or something, we may send them to orthodontics for what we call maxillary expansion. So we then can tailor what the specific sleep issues are to the appropriate care.
Laura: Okay. Yeah, I really love those. Okay, so as a person who has struggled with going to sleep for a long time, I'm starting to see some sleep anxiety pop up in my child. My youngest child, she's 9, almost 10. And, a few times a week, she, we tuck her in, and then she comes out and says, I can't sleep, I can't turn off my mind, and, you know, thinking too much, or she's worried about a dream that she had the night before and she might have again, you know, she just, she has, her mind is going, right? And she's, she definitely is an anxious kiddo. She sees a therapist, she's getting all the tools and stuff. But I'm just curious if you have any specific exercises or things that you could suggest for a family in a similar situation. I'm happy to share some of the things too that help her specifically, because I do think sometimes we have to take the ideas from experts like you and, and tailor them a little bit, you know, just so that they fit the, the kid that we've got. But anyway, I'd love to hear some ideas or just, you know, some, some things that can help.
Funke: Yeah, no, I love that. I think. Very importantly, for some in a situation like that, I think having a set time to really talk through those worries during the day is important. I would say that's the first thing. So you're kind of let's even backtrack a little bit, especially if it's not just a one-time, two time thing. And so what that looks like is, again, we say, okay, you know what, we have a lot of thoughts, and it seems a lot of those thoughts start to come up at night. So we're going to give ourselves an opportunity to worry. Like this is a certified worry time between X and Y. You know, and you could write, some kids get very artistic. They could draw. And we're trying to talk through and you make sure that you're around, if they think they want to talk through, you're trying to talk through some of those things with them. I think that is important because it feels like the mind is racing and there's no outlet, but you're creating that outlet and you're making sure that there are boundaries within the outlets that you've created.
Laura: Oh, I really love that idea of the boundaries. You know, I've noticed that on the days where she and I get to like snuggle up on the couch and she tells me about her day and process it with me, or on the days where she is able, she's an artist and I mean, she's prolific in her journals, you know, where she's had time to sit and do those things, she has a much easier time sleeping. But I really love the idea of being really, intentional and creating a container around it. And helping her build that kind of mental muscle of containing it as opposed to allowing it to seep everywhere.
Funke: Yeah, such a big one, that's such a big one, I think. And now, if they're having issues. I think there are different things you could do what we call relaxation strategies, so. Some deep breathing exercises are always a good one. You know, and depending on their age, right? They can either imagine themselves blowing. You know, petals of flowers, very small. I just kind of focused on that being in the present moment. It may be what we call progressive muscle relaxation. So start to contract and relax your feet all the way up to your calves, your thighs, all the way up very gradually and very slowly. So you're tensing and relaxing, tensing and relaxing. So that's another great one. And then sometimes we'll do things like guided imagery where you sort of give them that ability to say, okay, what, talk about, where would you like to be right now? Oh, okay. I would like to go to the beach. Tell me how it feels. What are you doing? Are you walking? How does the sand feel? And they can come up with that by themselves. You don't have to be present to do that with them. So those are just some tools, and before you know it, many times they feel relaxed enough to go back to sleep.
Laura: Yeah. My daughter and I love guided imagery. we, we use it, we call it planning a dream, where we are planning together with what dream we're gonna have, and we're gonna meet up in the dream together. And I get her to describe, you know, all the things with her eyes closed, you know, and it's, it's basically that, but with this, you know, just giving her something to think about as she drifts to sleep. She really likes that one. We have a go to one that's called our snow day dream, you know, we're in Wisconsin and we're always dreaming of having a snow day in the winter. Yeah. I really like that. Thank you so much. I'm thinking about our even older kiddos, so our teenage kids. And, you know, as our influence has slipped away, as they've become more peer oriented, they're getting ready to launch. How do you go about having some of those conversations? Just like, are there some important conversations to have as they approach things like going to college or, you know, spending more, more time away from us?
Funke: Yeah, I mean, I think it all boils down to helping them because there's just so much the research has shown between good sleep and performance, meeting them where they are, what's important. So if I tell a child who's not interested in pursuing, you know, it's a very competitive career doing maybe as a doctor or or anything like that or neuroscientist. Telling them how sleep affects their grades may not be a good sell.
Laura: It's not the way in, right?
Funke: Yeah, cause it, it doesn't really, it doesn't really motivate them. But if I have a child who, for instance, my son plays the cello, helping them understand. The ability to get those, the music notes right, to be very adept at what you're doing is connected to sleep in because it's like, oh, well, you know, clearly this impacts. So I think it's really about finding what, finding the why and connecting it back to sleep. So if you don't sleep well, you know, you're trying to drive. Well, if you're sleepy, you're at risk of running into an accident. So how about we make sure we take care of that so that you could get, you know, your license and it's not an issue, right? So, so many ways to do that. I think it's really that creativity in conversation that's important.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Gosh, thank you so much, Doctor Brown, for this conversation. I feel really, really curious about how folks can find you and get the support that they need from you. I know that you've been a guest on a lot of wonderful podcasts. You have your own website with options for support, right?
Funke: Yes, yes, yes. I have quite a lot of ways to access me, like, my website is a great place to start because right there. There are links to my practice. There's links to my YouTube channel, which is at Doctor Funke Brown. There's links to my book, which is Beyond Tired, the Sleep Physician's Guide to your child's sleep, child sleep problems for good. And then there's links to, you know, my blogs. I have, you know, almost weekly blogs, which have a lot of content. And then I'm also on social media at Restful Sleep MD Restful Sleep MD. My website is restfulsleepMD.com. So there's so many ways to, to get access and then if, you know, if you're in that Pennsylvania, New Jersey, California area with sleep issues, then we're more than happy to see you at our practice.
Laura: Okay. All right. And is that virtual or just in person?
Funke: Oh, both.
Laura: So that was, yeah, but you have to be in those places, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and California.
Funke: Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Laura: Oh gosh, I hope that you get everywhere soon cause I think that this is such a beautiful thing to get, get help on, you know, I think we, we really think it should be so simple, and it's not. I think sleep is pretty complicated. Because it does so much for us, right?
Funke: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, that is so true.
Laura: Yeah, well, well, thank you so much for being here with us.
Funke: Thank you so much for having me.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!