Episode 170: Discovering Rest: A Deep Dive into the Ins & Outs of Resting
/Welcome to another episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast! We all hear that rest is SO IMPORTANT and we are “supposed” to get more of it right? But have you ever actually sat down and considered how vague that word is, what it actually means to you as an individual, and how to get the rest you’re desperately seeking in a sustainable way? Join me as I have just this conversation with one of my dearest friends, Janna Denton-Howes
Together, we take a deep dive into the concept of rest, exploring its various dimensions—from the physical to the emotional and everything in between.
Here are some of the takeaways:
Different types of rest and ways to engage in them mindfully
Self reflection: Taking a moment to pause and pose questions to oneself
Journaling exercise on the discussed types of rest with the goal of identifying areas where you may need more nourishment
With the holidays fast approaching I know you’re going to be looking for ways to sneak in some intentional rest and rejuvenation, so I hope this episode will help you do just that! This episode is all about an honest and vulnerable exploration of the many facets of rest. Remember, parents, self-care comes in various forms, and it's crucial for your well-being. Until next time, embrace the rest you need and deserve!
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Okay, so we're going to talk about rest with, amongst friends. I just want to start off by saying Janna, you know, we became friends online and it was so special having you visit my home last summer, meeting my family and I did not understand how delightful it probably was for you. And now that I'm here, I've been in your home for eight days basically. It, I just, I really get it. It's so lovely getting to see you in your natural environment, see the home that you've set up. You know, it's, it's really hard to make good friends. And I just really value that I got to come into your world a little bit and that we get to have this conversation face to face.
Janna: I know it's such a treat for those who maybe don't have a lot of online friends. It may be maybe not as relatable, but it is, it's amazing. I can't even believe you're here in my office. It's just incredible.
Laura: I mean, I think, I think parenthood is a lonely time. I think it's really lonely when we're in the throes of parenting and we have our kids friends parents, you know, we have the people we see at school pickups and stuff. But there's no, you know, other than if we're blessed with a partner, there's no one else who's really in it with us. You know, and getting to come into your home and see what you're like as a mom and see your teenage girls. You know, I just, Janna has two kids who are older than mine. I have two kids who are in the middles and it's just really lovely to have a friend to go through life with.
Janna: I completely agree. I think it's fascinating to, to live with someone for a week because you get to see the rhythms of their life beyond maybe a couple of hours that are carefully curated. You know, if you have somebody over, you've, I mean, certainly before you came over, I cleaned my house. I mean, I did the thing, you know, but after a week you can't keep it up that long. You know, like at some point the dishes are going to get full in the sink and you're going to have a bit of a tiff with your husband and, you know, things, you know, things real life, things are going to happen and, you know, because bringing it to the, the topic that we did want to talk about today, which is rest that's also been interesting to do that with you as well and to negotiate and talk about and communicate what we're needing every day.
Laura: Yeah, because we're complex and we have lots of different needs, you know. So this um just for some context I am, I'm taking a 10 day trip away from my family. This is the longest I've ever been away from my kids and away from my husband. And my goal really was to rest where, you know, my audience knows that I'm coming out of a really difficult and stressful time period in my family. And I really wanted to spend time resting and, you know, I didn't, I came into it not really knowing what that meant. And so I was spending some time journaling on the topic. And so then I told you I was journaling and you're like, I don't know how to rest either. And I was like, gosh, we're two amazing moms, busy moms, like businesses that were running and we don't know how to rest, you know, and I feel like there's so many, we can't be alone. I think that this is a real problem in our culture. We don't know how to rest and the things that we think are rest aren't actually nourishing and restful. Like, what is your go to rest when you're like, Oh, I'm tired, I'm exhausted. What do you do?
Janna: Oh Youtube.
Laura: Youtube, yeah.
Janna: Youtube videos. I have of vloggers that I follow. I'm embarrassed to admit it.
Laura: What? Wait, but we're human. You know, we all have our little secret guilty.
Janna: Yeah, you know right? I just love Van Life videos and I love watching people do things that I would never do myself.
Laura: You like to see them be brave kind of?
Janna: Yeah, they build their own cabins in the wood. And I would hate that though. Like, living on a van. That's the worst thing I can imagine so.
Laura: But they're so happy.
Janna: Yeah but, you know, like I do, I do enjoy it to an extent, maybe about half an hour. But after that, it does start to just feel compulsive and icky and not almost like.
Laura: Draining.
Janna: Draining. Like I'm not actually making the decision to do that. Whereas if I do something a little bit more intentional, I think we're going to get into some of these. I love you had categorized a little bit, types of rest. But yeah. What about you? What do you tend to go to?
Laura: It's the same, you know. So, I, I have taken a pretty long social media break for months. I'm dabbling with getting back on there but with some more intentionality around, like what actually is fulfilling for me. So, I, like I have this Facebook group that talks about like different, weird and random things people find at thrift stores. I know.
Janna: I love, I've been, I've had the privilege of going through some thrift stores with you and it is fun. She delights in these things.
Laura: I mean, but it's really cool to think about like, the lives that these objects have had the place that they've had in people's homes and their lives, the joy that they brought and then they're in this new place where they're going to get a new life. You know, it's just a very interesting thing. So, I love that group, but it's the same. I find myself going in about 30 minutes and then it just, my eyes start to hurt and it feels like I can't stop. And we know that this is how it's designed. They have kind of hijacked our psychology. It's designed like this on purpose. And, you know, it's fascinating. I was at a conference earlier in the fall and someone from Stanford was presenting some research and she was talking, she had this beautiful data on different types of media and technology usage and almost all of them have a sweet spot of a 30 to 40 minutes where people get a net positive benefit from being on them. But then after that 40 minutes, their well being scores plot, really quickly. And so like, ok, so first is understanding that like the things that we go for. Are they actually fulfilling us? So maybe that first 30 minutes, yes. But somehow for me, somewhere in there, I don't know if it's this way for you, it shifts into numbing.
Janna: Totally.
Laura: You know, it shifts into like just kind of having this like life is hard. My nervous system is tired and I need to just not, it feels like this is going to benefit me to just not feel for a little while.
Janna: Exactly.
Laura: But it doesn't actually benefit me.
Janna: No, no when I'm finished. I don't feel.
Laura: Better.
Janna: Rested.
Laura: You don't feel rejuvenated.
Janna: No, no.
Laura: Okay. So one of the things that I was asking myself while I was journaling is what is the point of rest? So what, what is the, you know, why do we think we need it? Why is it hard to get and what is the goal of rest? Like the true goal of rest? If the goal is to check out and numb out? I feel like that's where I'm accomplishing that. But I don't think that that's actually what I want. When I say I need some rest, I need a break.
Janna: You know, I'm looking at a window right now at a bunch of trees and we're heading into a season of winter which I think is kind of a season of rest, isn't it in nature? And I wonder about the purpose of nature of rest. Like for me, it's a like you have to like you, I need it. It is, it is a requirement for me to continue being a human. To be honest, it's so basic.
Laura: I mean, but humans are some of the only animals who will actively avoid rest when their bodies give them the signals that they need it.
Janna: Really.
Laura: Yeah. Other animals are just like, oh, I need rest. Okay, I'm going to rest like they'll just lay down right and do the rest or they'll play, you know, lots of animals play but they'll play in a way that's restful and rejuvenating for them. So like I mean so what is the.
Janna: The life we're trying to live is very unnatural.
Laura: Oh, it's so unnatural. Humans are at our core. We animals and yet we're living in a world that does not allow for our animal nature.
Janna: So, when I think of doing something like I have this acupressure mat and you have one as well. And if I take like a good 30 minute, 20 to 30 minutes and I pop in some headphones and I listen to whatever meditative music I'm feeling at the time. I focus, I do a little bit of meditation after I'm done that I feel grounded. I feel alert. I feel my, my conversations with my, my Children, my husband are um more present. I um yeah, like it is a, it is a body feel.
Laura: Yeah.
Janna: What about you?
Laura: I mean, so one of the things that when I think about resting is looking at what, what type of rest I need as a person who experiences chronic pain from a car accident a few years ago, there's times where I need literal physical rest where my physical body needs to get into a position where I'm not experiencing pain. So I, I kind of, I did a little bit of like googling and researching on different types of rest and can I share them with you?
Janna: Oh, yeah.
Laura: Would that be helpful?
Janna: Oh yeah, let’s do that.
Laura: So, physical is one. Mental, so needing a mental break. Emotional is a kind of a type of rest that you might need. And I feel like we can dig into some of what these mean social was one that came up, spiritual is one that came up, sensory, which I think a lot of people identify with, you know, lots of the folks who come to this podcast have highly sensitive kids or kids with sensory stuff. And then as they start digging in to, you know, at least that come to my podcast, they are like, oh gosh, that's me too.
Janna: That was my journey. I'm like, oh my kid so sensitive. Oh, this book is for me.
Laura: Yes, right? And then creative rest. And one of the things that I was really interested in figuring out about these different categories is that sometimes you need a break, like a, a rest from the thing, like doing the thing, like mental, like a mental rest is a rest from thinking. But sometimes you need to do the thing for the pure pleasure of it and you need to do the thing in a restful way. So like, for example, and I'm like burnt out on my business and trying to creatively think of posts or podcast episodes. I need a creative rest, but I get that rest by doing something creative for the pure pleasure of creation as opposed to the productivity of it. Do you know what I'm saying?
Janna: Yeah. And that's a different definition I think, than a lot of us think when I hear the word rest, I think of napping.
Laura: Yeah, of taking a break.
Janna: Not doing anything.
Laura: Not doing anything.
Janna: Not doing something.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, one of my favorite ways to take a physical break, physical rest is taking a breath, taking a bath. Hugs are actually a really big source of physical rest for my body of nervous system feedback, massage and stretching. So stretching is something that's active, but it's restful to my body. I don't know, does it make sense?
Janna: Oh yeah, this is great ideas. Yeah.
Laura: We both talked about mental breaks that we need. Sometimes we need to take a walk where we're not listening to a podcast.
Janna: That is my hardest break, a mental break because I live so much in my head and I'm constantly thinking and creating ideas and formulas and, and, you know, just working on.
Laura: Noodling things.
Janna: Yeah. And it is to be honest, one of my favorite things to do, but there comes a point when it's time to do something else. Like it is time to get more in my body and you know, thinking actually about, you know, sex because that's my area of expertise. A lot of women will say having sex is really hard because I'm so in my head, I'm thinking the whole time and I say that's okay, you can do that and also there can come a point where you say I'm making the choice now to experience sensations at this point. And when I do that, when I allow myself first to be in my head, that's okay. We're not vilifying anything here. But then making the choice. That is such a relief sometimes, like, oh, I can leave that for a minute and, and whether it's a walk, whether it's something, you know, sensual, whether it's a bath. Yeah. It's a challenge to do though.
Laura: It's a really hard and, you know, I feel like this might be a good time to talk a little bit about productivity because I my biggest barrier for most of these types of rest is that I need to get something out of it. So if I'm gonna give myself the gift of a 30 minute walk, I'm going to listen to a podcast on 2X speed.
Janna: 2X speed.
Laura: You know? I mean, this is my ADHD I'm like, you know?
Janna: Yeah,but you can have a walk, but let's make it productive.
Laura: Yes, I'm allowed to have a walk, but let's make it productive. Or if I'm taking a bath, I will also read during it versus the very different sensory experience of not reading and laying in the bath with my ears under the water.
Janna: Totally.
Laura: You know, it's very different.
Janna: Completely. Like one you're not even in your body.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, gosh, you do this work all the time with the women that you work with. It's scary sometimes for us to be in our bodies.
Janna: Oh yeah, I mean, we don't have culture saying that that's an appropriate thing to do as a woman. You know, we're supposed to use our bodies to provide.
Laura: I mean, to be perfectly honest, there's like lots of safety issues with being in your body. Like my body has been an unsafe place to be at times in my life, you know.
Janna: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I love to rollerblade. We have a sea walk here and.
Laura: She lives in the most beautiful place on earth.
Janna: Yeah. And, and I had to do the same thing. I had to make a rule for myself. No podcasts, because you're going to miss the whole point of this roller blade. And the whole point for me is to get in my body because when I like to go quite fast and you have to be in the moment and you have to, you have to be aware of your surroundings, the breeze, the sun. I like to play really loud music as well. And, and I find that I also try not to do some of the social graces that I feel like I'm expected as a woman, like smile at everyone.
Laura: How radical of you.
Janna: I know and sometimes I even do a little roller dancing and it's right by the road. You know, people can see you, but I come back from an hour out there. And I just feel.
Laura: What do you feel?
Janna: I just feel invigorated. I feel inspired. I feel, I just feel so connected to myself.
Laura: And that is rest. I feel like we think rest is laying in bed doing nothing and it doesn't necessarily need to be that way. It's doing the things that you need to do to feel rejuvenated, recharged. Right?
Janna: Yeah. And part of that is knowing yourself. Like I love rollerblading when I was young. And then I went for a long period of time when I was a mom that I didn't because I thought it was ridiculous. Moms don't roller blade, you know, that's for kids. And recently I've been seeing some other much older women than me, like on roller blades. And I was like, oh, I give them the biggest smile. Like, yeah.
Laura: And you don't know, maybe seeing you out there, gave them permission. Seeing this mom, this 40 year old mom out there rollerblading, gave them permission to be like one of the biggest lies I think we tell ourselves is that we have to grow up to be adults. And I just, I think, I think we tell that lie to kids and we tell it to ourselves. And I love that. I love that you found a young part of yourself that you can delight in.
Janna: Yeah, I think, I think it's so important. I think we're both saying the same thing that it's really important to. Not just do the thing because there are things that we're told in our culture that are restful.
Laura: Yes.
Janna: Right?
Laura: Yes.
Janna: Like there's a restful box that.
Laura: Yeah. What are some of those things?
Janna: I would probably say yoga.
Laura: TV.
Janna: TV. Yeah, Netflix. Netflix and chill.
Laura: Taking a nap.
Janna: Maybe not.
Laura: After they've taken your course, Netflix and chill that can be delightful.
Janna: Yeah. No, it's not in the sex is not in the rest category. But um yeah. What else?
Laura: But no. Hold on a second. What you teach that intimacy and sex can be nourishing, reconnecting, rejuvenating from a cultural standpoint.
Janna: It is with the women I serve. It's that you are providing a need for your partner. It's not a restful experience for you.
Laura: Until they take your course.
Janna: Until they take my course and it shouldn't be restful. It should be exciting and new and, you know.
Laura: Yeah, oh gosh.
Janna: Spicing it up and all that and I'm like, forget that. Let's do something. Relaxing.
Laura: Let’s just nourish my body.
Janna: Like we have enough on our, on our plates and we need a lot more. Yeah.
Laura: Yeah.
Janna: Rest. Yeah. Nourishment.
Laura: Nourishment. I really enjoy that word. And I sometimes feel like I'm very bad at nourishing myself. Like I don't feel like I was taught how to nourish myself.
Janna: Oh, gosh. No. Where were we taught that?
Laura: I mean, I think our kids are learning that in our home. I hope so. I'm looking to actively teach that to my kids. Tune into your body. What does your body need? What is it communicating to you right now?
Janna: Yeah. And you know, I have teens so phones are, you know, that's a huge conversation back to where we started. It's, so there are things that can get in the way of our rest. There are barriers to rest.
Laura: There are huge barriers.
Janna: And the productivity mindset.
Laura: Time.
Janna: The more addictive stuff like food and, or sugar and scrolling time. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure lots of women are listening right now thinking, well.
Laura: This is all great.
Janna: But.
Laura: Who has time for this?
Janna: Yeah. Like, you know, there's, there's no minute in my day. I wake up, I make, you know, not all my audience but all your audience have children. Take care of dogs, animals, you know, kids.
Laura: Take care of others.
Janna: Take care of others and then either you're working out of the home or you're working in the home and either both things.
Laura: Both are huge amounts of work.
Janna: Huge amounts of work. There's piles of laundry, there's, you know, cupboards full of crap. There's.
Laura: Dishes on the counter.
Janna: Yeah. I mean, easily you can, if the kids are at school you can use that time for, for providing for other people essentially. Then, yeah. Then what happens in the afternoon snacks? And, you know, if you've got teens, like me just driving around.
Laura: Activities.
Janna: Activities, then we've got dinner. Yeah. And then weekends come on grocery shopping and running errands.
Laura: So, what do we do then with this?
Janna: Well, how have we done it? Because we have done it. And we granted, we don't have super young kids. But.
Laura: I managed to do it when I had young kids cause I had to, it was a, it was a situation where my body demanded that I do some things for it because I had been in this car accident and I, you know, I don't think I identified as disabled at the time, but I was, I was disabled. I struggled like I could have used a parking, an accessible parking tag so that I could park closer to a grocery store. Like that's just the reality. I've had to really deconstruct a lot of my own ableism to come to a place where I can feel comfortable saying those things. So I, I spent a good portion of my time as a mother with two young kids in a place where my physical body demanded. Like there just wasn't a choice and I had the privilege of being able to take time for nourishing my body, you know.
Janna: Yeah, I mean, I, I would say I didn't experience a similar thing, but what's made me, made me got my attention right to look at this and be serious about this was severe burnout. And then I also developed a chronic bladder pain issue. And so, you know, it's very interesting.
Laura: Our bodies.
Janna: That both of us had bodies that were like, you have to listen.
Laura: You have to listen. You know, there's this book Wintering and I'm totally going to blank on the name of the author who wrote it. But that happened to her body was just shutting down and she just needed to go into a very intense state of rest. Wintering.
Janna: Yeah. Yeah. When I hit burnout I, my motivation was gone. I, yeah. And, and at that point, I don't know, it's, it's more, it's a different state than the rest that, you know, you have half an hour of it and then you feel rejuvenated. This is a deeper, longer process. So if there's any motivation for us to rest, it's to never get knocked back there.
Laura: I mean, so what do we do then for parents who are maybe or you know, my audience's parents, your audience's women so that we don't like, why do we have to get to this point where our bodies demanded of us in order for us to make that time? I just, I can't imagine driving a car and have it, have like 20 alarms on and not taking it to get checked out. We would take, you know, we would take our car to get checked out way before we take ourselves seriously.
Janna: As you know, I always like to look at culture and so that we can have compassion for ourselves because otherwise it can feel like we're letting ourselves down.
Laura: Yes.
Janna: But the truth is culture is letting us down.
Laura: It is. Oh.
Janna: Yeah.
Laura: That feels so good to hear.
Janna: Because otherwise it's like, why can't I do this? Why am I not? Am I not setting the priorities in my life?
Laura: And our culture has made it nearly impossible for us to do that.
Janna: So I think the first step to this is knowing that you're not alone and that it's not your fault that you live in a culture that has perpetuated this. It has made it incredibly hard for women to get rest and to ask for rest and to even identify what's restful?
Laura: What's restful and what type of rest we need?
Janna: Can you say those again? Those are really good.
Laura: So I think like you're saying, I kind of coming to this place of self, compassion and awareness of we have needs for rest that aren't being met and that it's okay for us as human beings, human animals to need rest.
Janna: And it makes sense that we've gotten to this point.
Laura: It makes complete sense that we've ignored it for a while or you know, that it's been.
Janna: We've been told.
Laura: We've been told, taught, supported and ignoring.
Janna: It's actually very beneficial to some members of our society for women to not rest.
Laura: Yes. Yeah. The I mean, our capitalistic world, you know, particularly here in the west runs off of our continued not resting to.
Janna: Yeah.
Laura: Yeah. Just to be clear, we're talking about patriarchy.
Janna: Should we label it?
Laura: No, no. I mean just like.
Janna: Say it out loud?
Laura: Why not? Because it's a safe space.
Janna: Yeah, and I think the conversation around patriarchy is becoming a lot more nuanced. It's not against men, it's against patriarchy.
Laura: No, because it hurts men, too.
Janna: Yeah. And that's a societal thing that we're looking at that. You know, my husband and I had to go through quite a reckoning and.
Laura: My husband and I did it, too. We kinda did it at the same time.
Janna: That is so cool. I forgot about that.
Laura: It was so hard and good at the same.
Janna: So hard and good. And we just, you know, I really thought it was, can we talk about marriage for a second?
Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Janna: I really thought that I was in an equitable relationship.
Laura: Me, too.
Janna: Right? Like our husband's feminist, right?
Laura: I mean you know, my husband the best.
Janna: Totally. Love women fight for women's rights. But then I started, it was around the time where I experienced a lot of burnout. And so I was doing a lot of reflection and, and I started to look at my life and my daily activities and I realized I, and unfortunately I had to get to the place where I was bringing in about the same amount of income as my husband. That was like, what triggered it for me because before I was like, oh, well, you know, he's pulling his weight more financially, which is a whole other thing we could talk about, but not, not for this podcast. But, and then I started to realize, oh, but I'm the default parent, I'm there. When the kids get sick. I happen to work from home because that helped our family when, you know, it's hard when kids are in school, they're often not in school when they're in school. And I was doing the majority of the driving, most of dinners. It just wasn't. Yeah, there was a lot less time for me to rest and I was working full time as well. And so having that reckoning in our relationship really did help create more space for me. More of a voice for me.
Laura: Yeah. And can we just acknowledge are meant for going on that journey with us? You know, my husband and I did book club. We do book club every now and again together, but we read.
Janna: That’s so sweet.
Laura: We read fed up together and that was really eye opening just to all of the things that I just do it for me. It's not that I've stopped doing a lot of the things I'm really the heart of our home. Like I really make our home beautiful and comfortable and warm.
Janna: And also can I say spending time with you? I realize that is that it's delightful for you.
Laura: Oh, I love it.
Janna: It's a delight. It's a joy. I see you with your, with the things. I don't know how to describe it.
Laura: But it is a delight for me. I love the idea that folks, my kids, my husband will come into our home and, and be surrounded with warmth and beauty. I love doing it. And I don't want anyone else to take that over from me. I don't want my husband to be me I don't want him doing those things. I just want him to value what I bring to, to our family.
Janna: And knowing that you need it.
Laura: Acknowledge.
Janna: Time off.
Laura: To be able to do that.
Janna: Exactly.
Laura: that I am providing, that I might not be bringing in the money that he's bringing in. He might make more dinners than me. But when he goes to cook, our cookware is beautifully organized. The grocery shopping has been done and the food is in the refrigerator in a way that makes it really easy for him to pull it out and cook. You know what I'm saying?
Janna: Oh, yeah. And I think it's as unfair as it is, to be honest, they didn't know that we were in those, like, they didn't know that that needed to happen.
Laura: Yeah. They didn't know they haven't been, you know, and I, and one of the things that I think was so beautiful about coming out of these conversations with my husband is that it woke him up to all that he was missing. He went through a period where he was quite devastated to realize how not empty but just that life was more rich than he knew it was. And that he, that culture had not taught him how to be fully alive and present. And I think that that is, you know, before we went through that I would never catch him just standing at the window, delighting in the sunrise. My girls and I would oftentimes, you know, in the winter time, the sun comes up in our sun room and into our playroom in just these like most beautiful brilliant sunrises and the girls and I will sometimes just like wake up in bed and see the light and know what's going to be happening downstairs and we'll run down as a group to go. And now I catch him just admiring things like that and he just wasn't awake to it before and he was heartbroken to realize he'd spent his life 38 years missing on the texture and the richness of life too. So this is, I hope that nobody is listening, thinking that we just think men are lazy. We want, we want, they want, they need this. They need a full richer lived experience.
Janna: Oh, yeah. My husband does a lot of the driving now in the mornings and he gets to benefit from having those conversations with his teens in the truck and he's a lot more up to date with her life and what's going on and otherwise he would be missing out on that. And so, yeah.
Laura: This morning he was doing dishes. So you had taken one kid to school and he was unloading the dishwasher and unloading the dishes. And your daughter's friend was sitting there and he had this beautiful in depth conversation about her marketing class, her entrepreneurship class, you know, and he has just started his business. They were having this beautiful conversation with this. I don't know, 13 year old girl while he was doing dishes. And I'm thinking what a beautiful thing for this girl to experience this man who has started a really cool company, taking the time to listen to her thoughts, listen to her business ideas validate them. Well, he's doing the dishes. I know what a cool thing and good for him too.
Janna: Oh, yeah. Good for all of us. So you guys read Fed Up, which I read as well. And then John read, my husband read Fair Play. You had her on your podcast?
Laura: No, I had Gemma the fed up like fair play too. What else did we read? He read the one who's that? The Justin Baldoni book.
Janna: Man Enough?
Laura: Man Enough. He really enjoyed that book.
Janna: My husband's not a reader so once in a while I can get him to pop in an audio book in his truck. And so it plays when he gets in there. You know, I just want to make sure that I hope this is coming across in this episode that we do not have this figured out, you know, like even, even in preparation for this, podcast conversation, Laura brought up the idea and the topic and I was sitting at the sink this morning and I just said, I just find the idea of rest really irritating. And I think, I think because it can also feel like pressure to make sure you get your rest. Like, you know, the most irritating thing people would say when I had young kids is like, rest, when they rest or sleep, when they sleep. I'm like, are you kidding me? I am trying to survive over here, like if I had a village. So I think for me.
Laura: I think, I mean, the village conversation is a part of it too, but our human biology was promised a village, our genetics, our DNA developed under a village.
Janna: Seriously. Even just having you here this week has been amazing.
Laura: One more person to help the dinner, help the dishes.
Janna: Or even just after a hard conversation with one of my daughters and for you to be on the couch reading, but being there in the environment and for me to be able to debrief with you, do you have any feedback? Like how did that go? And like for me to otherwise it's just me by myself.
Laura: Yeah, wondering.
Janna: You know, or, you know, talking to my husband at nine o'clock at night, 9:30 at night when we're trying to go to bed, right? We're all exhausted and stuff. But yeah. So I see this process for me as a lifelong journey. I think there will definitely be times in my life where I am able to do this a lot more. It's on my radar. I'm rollerblading. I'm going on my mat, I'm meditating. I love to, I love music. I find music very restful. So just popping in something loud in my office and just dancing around and, and singing and you like bath. So there are things that.
Laura: I like music and music and singing, too.
Janna: You like music and singing?
Laura: Yeah, I do. I like looking at beautiful things.
Janna: Oh, you are good at that. I just have to say like it is so fun.
Laura: A silly thing to be good at.
Janna: It’s so fun. Like going for a walk in. We've been to many forests together because that's kind of what you do when you're here on island and she stops all the time. Look at this tree, look at this moss, look at this mushroom. And I have never, I thought I was an observant person but now I'm like, wow, this force is teeming with beautiful things.
Laura: You know, I learned that from kids. You know, I think that parents of young Children do. There are opportunities for rest like good recharging, rejuvenating, rest built in to the fabric of your day with young kids. So if you're taking your kids on a walk, yes, it's hard. But so often we take our kids on a walk with some goal. We're going to get to the part, we're going to get a certain number of steps in. But if we drop into a childlike state of wonder and follow them, they do that very naturally. They're looking, they're noticing like.
Janna: Splashing and puddle.
Laura: And so I think there's opportunities in the fabric of our lives. I was just thinking about like we went to one of your kids choir practices last night and it would have been so easy to sit there and be on our phones. But music is rejuvenating for your heart and your soul and you sat there, you did not pull out your phone and you just listened and basked in the music and then the delight of your child. And that was rest.
Janna: Oh, yes.
Laura: It was really recharging for you and good for your daughter. So I do feel like there's opportunities but we need to reframe that. It's not just lying in bed or binging Netflix or scrolling Facebook, you know, like it's that there's these other opportunities to really, like, drop in to what's happening, you know, like, you know, sometimes, I dislike dishes as much as the next person. But sometimes if I approach it with feeling the warmth of the water on my hands with like the kind of the meditative energy it, it takes on a different quality and I don't, I don't have the ability to do that all the time. So I'm going to just get the dishes done, but sometimes there's opportunities for that or my kitchen window, like my kitchen has a window that I do the dishes and watch birds, you know, outside while I'm doing the dishes where I can find little moments of that for myself. And that helps me.
Janna: Yeah, it's so interesting as you're talking because the intersection of, you know, if folks are coming from my podcast. They know I talk about pleasure a lot and it's so interesting.
Laura: Pleasure and rest I think are deeply intertwined.
Janna: Yeah. Like I would have said exactly the same thing, but I would have framed it as pleasure. So this is really cool to think of pleasure in this new light of rejuvenation and yeah, and rest so good.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was at one point you asked me to say the different types of rest. So I'm just going to read them all. Okay. So I feel like sometimes I like to give people journaling work to do. So I would love to invite you dear listener to write down, just ask, write down some of these questions and then journal later or pause this podcast as you listen to it. So just ask yourself right now. How do I rest? What does rest look like for me right now? And are these things actually restful? Are they actually recharging, rejuvenating, nourishing and just, you know, start there and then.
Janna: How do I feel after?
Laura: How do I feel after? Yeah. How do I feel after doing those things? Good question. Okay. I love it. And so then I'm going to give you the list of different types of rest and as you go through them, as you take a look at them, start thinking about what things you already do that fit into some of these categories, which of these categories, maybe you're missing right now or that you feel really exhausted in and need some nourishing in. Which ones you already do? Well, you know, because they might be there. So just write those down and spend some time noodling them, journaling through them, thinking through them.
Janna: Yeah. Can I add something here? Watch out if you judge an activity.
Laura: Yeah. So frame all of this through compassion and it makes sense.
Janna: And allow yourself if it comes up like this is a restful thing for me.
Laura: Write it down.
Janna: Put it down.
Laura: Even if it doesn't make sense.
Janna: Because it's so easy to, oh, that's silly looks.
Laura: Okay. I will. Okay. So I'm going to share this and then I'll share one that I feel a little nervous about sharing. But okay, so the categories are physical, mental, emotional, social, spiritual, sensory and creative. So one of mine that I feel a little silly about is an emotional piece. So there's times where the work I do is very emotionally heavy. I hold a lot of space, especially for the folks in my membership. You know, we are all working through having really challenging moments in our families and we're working through like reparenting ourselves in the moment while parenting, like kids do really challenging moments in their lives and it's heavy and it's a lot. And I am also personally going through this, this work for myself. And so I often feel very emotionally exhausted and drained and like I need to cry. And after I cry, I feel wrung out in the most delicious way. You know, I know some people feel that way after a hot yoga class, they feel like wrung out and limp, crying does that for me. And it always has, since I was a child, I would actively seek out things that made me cry so I could get that release. There's this book, Mister like Owl at home, I think, and in the book, there's this one small short story in it where he makes tear water tea and he sits down in a chair with his teapot and thinks of all the saddest things in the world that he can think of and cries into the teapot and then he makes tea with it and at the end he goes, it's salty but delicious, you know, and I remember reading that as a child and being like, oh, there's people like me. So I will purposely catalog movies that just make me ugly cry. And when I'm really emotionally drained watching one of those movies, I mean, it just feels so good.
Janna: Exactly what you need. Yeah.
Laura: You know, but that feels I've shared that with people and they're like, woah.
Janna: No, I.
Laura: So don't do that to yourself.
Janna: No.
Laura: Just let yourself be.
Janna: Totally like, I have a daughter who has a playlist on Spotify.
Laura: That just makes her cry.
Janna: Yeah, a crying playlist.
Laura: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Janna: It's good.
Laura: What something else that I do that is um let's see. I don't even, I, I don't know. No, I think that that's my biggest one. I'm like, is that really? Is that allowed? Is that allowed? Is that allowed?
Janna: It is allowed.
Laura: It’s allowed.
Janna: It’s allowed.
Laura: Do you have any that you kind of maybe would judge yourself for?
Janna: I think the roller blading one, the roller blading one feels it still sometimes feel when I'm lacing up, you know.
Laura: Am I allowed to do this.
Janna: This is a bit childish. I'm being a bit childish.
Laura: Oh, can we just I hate that word childish.
Janna: I know it's so judgy and so putting down.
Laura: Of children.
Janna: Of children and it brings me so much joy.
Laura: I'm so glad you rollerblade.
Janna: Yeah, I love it. I do find myself not doing it as much as I want to because of that. So like I said before, like this is a, this is a journey, you know, and sometimes I'll, I'll write in my journal, I'll say I want to do these three things today. So I wanna read. I want to, I'm just making it, you know, I, I want to read in a book I'm really excited about. I want to spend 20 minutes doodling in my, I like to draw and doodle and do some fun stuff in my journal. And I want to go for a walk and I will, it will get to like 2, 3, 4 PM and I haven't done those three things and it's just so fascinating to me. It's almost like I'm avoiding it. I'm avoiding it. I'm avoiding it.
Laura: What is that?
Janna: Do you ever do that?
Laura: 100%.
Janna: What are you avoiding?
Laura: There's these things that I know I'll feel better if I do that.
Janna: Yeah.
Laura: But it's hard.
Janna: Yeah.
Laura: It's hard for me to self do it.
Janna: Yeah, It's so, it's so intentional and there's something about the intentionality about it that feels hard for me. I don't know. I think maybe that's another journaling question for you and I both know, you know, what do we find ourselves or do we find ourselves avoiding restful things?
Laura: I mean, there's part of me, I know that there's a part of this for me. That's a worthiness issue.
Janna: For sure.
Laura: I know that there is, you know, that that's just not worth my time. My rest needs are not worth my time. There's laundry to do. There's, you know, you know, there's emails to write, there's work to do.
Janna: I also wonder if I feel a little bit of pressure. If I rest, then.
Laura: Then you have got to make up for it and be productive.
Janna: I got to see the fruits of it, the outcome of it. You know, I better jump up from that meditation 20 minute situation and go.
Laura: Super productive.
Janna: Yeah. Yeah. Be really grounded and my anxiety is gone.
Laura: And kind to my kids.
Janna: Not feeling, I'm feeling joyful. Maybe there's a pressure around an emotion. I need to feel that I need to feel happy and that's pressure.
Laura: And pressure kills pleasure.
Janna: It really does. It really does. So this is a complicated topic.
Laura: It's, and it's a work in progress and we started out having this conversation with no answers. And I don't know that we really gave you any answer, but we want you to know that you're not alone.
Janna: Yeah. Solidarity.
Laura: And that we're figuring this out together.
Janna: For the rest of my life.
Laura: For the rest of our lives. And we don't have to do it alone. I do have to say Janna being able to coming out of my journaling with us a couple of days ago and saying to you what I was journaling on and you had also been journaling on the exact topic elsewhere in the house. I mean, that was really validating. We're not alone and it was really nice to talk with my friend about it. You know, it was really nice to, you know.
Janna: Find a friend, find a friend who's going to give you a me too. No solutions. No weird faces. Like, really? You think that? No, we just need a friend.
Laura: Who’s going to say that makes sense.
Janna: That makes sense.
Laura: And me, too. I love it. Jenna, thank you.
Janna: Thank you. This is good. Could you imagine if we could do this every week? Oh my heart.
Laura: It would be so nice.
Janna: I know. But at least we got to do this one time and.
Laura: Maybe we can do it again. It's not the same in Zoom. It's really nice being here and being able to feel your energy and presence and love.
Janna: Yeah, it's, it's really cool having you in my office too now because I feel like I'm bringing your, I have your energy here now forever.
Laura: Yay.
Janna: Yeah. Oh, how do we wrap this up?
Laura: I think, I think we did it. I could put something.
Janna: All right.
Laura: Thanks for being you.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!